Episode 29: How to Fight Fair (What No One Taught Us About Conflict)

Most of us were never taught how to fight fair. We absorbed habits, patterns, and a fair amount of defensiveness from our own families and brought it all into our relationships. In this episode, sex therapist + couples counselor Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy and pelvic floor physical therapist Dr. Alexandra DiGrado get into the mechanics of conflict. Dr. Alex gets personal about her own tendencies as a pursuer, including the moment she was ready to pack up the kids over her husband's tone of voice. And together, they get into what genuine repair requires, which turns out to be a lot more than just saying sorry.

What you’ll learn:

• What it means that conflict is co-created and why blaming your partner for the cycle misses the point
• Why defensiveness is usually about shame, not the argument itself
• Why pursuing and withdrawing are both flooded nervous system states, just opposite expressions of the same thing
• Why a sincere apology requires tolerating your own guilt (most of us skip that part entirely)

Tune in if you’ve ever thought:

• "It doesn't matter what we're fighting about…we keep falling into the same bad habits.”
• "I feel like I'm always the one who has to bring things up."
• "By the time we actually talk about it, I'm already too angry to have a fair conversation."
• "I don't want to start something right before bed, but I also can't just let it go."

Helpful resources:

• Find a pelvic floor PT near you: pelvicrehab.com or Pelvic Global Directory
• Parents in Love: A Guide to Great Sex After Kids by Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy 

Connect with us:

Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy
Website: rebeccaeudy.com
Instagram: @rebeccahowardeudy
Newsletter: Parents in Love Substack

Dr. Alexandra DiGrado
Website: bostonpelvicpt.com
Instagram: @bostonpelvicpt
Newsletter: Under the Hood

Under the Hood Podcast
Instagram: @underthehooddocs
Website: underthehoodpod.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Under the Hood with Dr. Alex and Dr. Rebecca, where we share pearls of wisdom from our 30 years of combined clinical experience. Hello. Hello. Okay, so this is a tricky one, very uncomfortable to face your own flaws. But the topic today is how do we fight? And maybe ideally, how can we fight better? Asking for a friend. So I want to know the rules.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

You did bring up this as a topic. This was my idea you wanted to cover.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

So because I've been told that I might be a bit of a punching bag, or sometimes like I I my husband has said he feels like my punching bag. So obviously there's work to be done here. And so I would love to hear from you as the expert being a couples therapist yourself. If there are kind of some, you know how the Gottmans do the four horsemen or whatever. Just if there's some issues that we should try and avoid if we can with fighting, and then maybe some advice. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yes, absolutely. Well, so first of all, I love I think the Gottmans do a really good job of taking things that are pretty complex and making them like very easy to understand and like digestible. So I would say that I can tell you what I think that people often do wrong. Yes, absolutely. And maybe we can go from there. Perfect. So first of all, I think that one of the things that people do the most wrong is that they take things personally. Okay. So when we're in conflict, a lot of times, well, I would say almost all the time, the conflict is between two different perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I see. Okay. That's why earlier you said it doesn't actually matter what people are fighting about.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Not really. I mean, it does, you know. I mean, I I'm not gonna dismiss content entirely. Yeah. You know, some content is more important than others. But uh you and I both know, and I think everybody who's listening knows that, you know, some of the worst arguments might be over something like tone of voice. You know, you said this thing and you said it in this way, and then the your partner's like, what are you talking about? I didn't. Yes, you did. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

And then it feels like disrespect, essentially. I remember, yeah, yeah. A big fight that we had. I just felt that the tone was so disrespectful that I was not gonna tolerate that. Uh-huh. And I was literally packing up the kids to leave. And Paul was like, wait, what happened? Like, are you serious? What's going on right now? And in his mind, he was just being sarcastic and funny. Yeah. Yeah. And joking. Right. And I was furious serious. To the point of leaving.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah. Well, okay, so I have to wonder if he might have also sometimes when the tone lands wrong, it's because we're trying to say something, but we're saying it in totally. Yeah. So there might be. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I think there was some truth to it, which is what really really pissed you off.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. Okay. So, yes. So I think that something like a tone of voice can set off a huge fight. But it's it, and I think sometimes when we have those huge fights over like nothing, you know, after an hour of fighting about a tone of voice, you start to devolve into, I know this is important, but I don't know why. And it's so stupid that we're talking about. But it feels essential. Yeah. So, you know, one of the biggest skills in healthy communication, whether it's between partners or business partners or, you know, whoever, is differentiation. I see. Okay, what does that mean? So it's a sort of a fancy way of saying perspective taking. Okay. So it's it's wrapped up in empathy. So if you tell me something, if we if if there's two of us and we are in a situation, we're gonna have two very different perspectives. Sometimes we might have a similar perspective, but especially when there's a conflict, we may have very different perspectives. And an example of that might be something like, you used this tone of voice, and Paula's like, no, I really didn't, or I didn't mean it that way, or whatever. But your perspective is so valid. Right. Yeah, you were hurt by the tone of voice. It felt disrespectful. And so if we can start to think about our partner's perspective as being equally valid and letting go of the need to be right. So that's one of the things that That's so hard. It's really hard. I know. It's super hard. And I think a lot of times people don't actually want to do it. No, I don't want to do it. No, I don't know. Letting go of the need to be right, are you kidding me? Yeah, I know. I had a professor in college who used to say, you can either be right or you can be married. I've heard that before. Yeah, I know. Miraculously, I'm still married. Well, maybe it's because you're always right. I think that might be it. No, but I mean, I do think that the you the you don't have to let go of the need to be right. Because if you were to say, Okay, I'm not right, and your partner is still wanting to be right, then you're in a situation where one person's right and one person's wrong, which means one person's winning and one person's losing. Yeah, which is tough. Totally. So you really shifting into the idea that we're both right. Yeah, okay. The assumption that we're both right, the assumption that I'm married to somebody who or I'm with somebody who is, you know, a good person who is a loving person who's not intentionally trying to hurt me. Which I very I I don't think I ever have really worked with anybody who is intentionally causing harm. Maybe in the middle of a big fight when, you know, you know, you're feeling pain and you want them to feel the same pain you're feeling. Yeah, then we can get a little spiteful, but by and large, people are not trying to hurt each other.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah, okay. And so really it's assuming positive intent or just assuming that the person is actually coming from a good place and does care about you. You mentioned, you talk about that in your book, and it was really helpful for me to read that.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah. So if we assume positive intent, and we assume that even though this our partner's words, actions are inconceivable to us and hurtful, they do have a good reason that we could make sense of them if we understand what their perspective is.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Because we're coming from different perspectives. Isn't that the case with communication in general? It's that there's all these things between the lines that we think the other person knows and then they don't. And it's confusing when they don't. Yeah, exactly. Because we come from completely different perspectives.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

We do. And so if we assume that their perspective is valid, like if we just go in with the assumption, interesting, your perspective is valid, you don't have to agree with it. I mean, there's plenty of perspectives that you may not dis not agree with. But if we can start to come from a place of curiosity. Interesting.

unknown 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah. Sometimes I pretend that I'm coming from a place of curiosity. Yeah. And then I realize too late that I actually am not curious. I'm just trying to convince you of my own.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

It's like if I can understand this, your perspective better, then maybe I can use your words. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, manipulate you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thinking I'm right. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I think we all do that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a very human. Well, we we want, if we're right, then we're valid. Yeah, right. And we want to be valid. Totally. And so if we can start to shift into the perspective of you're already valid, I don't understand you necessarily. And that's causing some conflict. But if we can come with curiosity. So I think the other thing that is often a pitfall is that people want to get understood in the same conversation. I see. So this would be like, I tell you, you know, you didn't you didn't take the trash out. And, you know, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it really made me feel very unsupported. And what would be very validating is if my partner were to say, oh man, I'm I get that. I'm so sorry. I really, of course, I didn't mean to make you feel that way. I'm so sorry you felt that way. Yeah. But of course, we want to defend ourselves. We want our perspective to be known as well. So, you know, a more probably human response might have been, well, I had a really busy morning. Like, I I can't believe that you would feel unsupported. I do so much else for you. That's defensive. That's more defensive. Yeah. And it but and it also is adding in your perspective. So a lot of times we say, Well, I hear you, but we respond to to a person's perspective by giving our own perspective.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I see. That is so true because then you feel like the person's not even listening to you. That's right. Because they immediately come back with their own thing. That's right. And you're saying, Okay, wait a second, did you even waiting to interject? Yes. Yeah. Did you even let actually listen to the words I was saying and take them in?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Right. So the difference there between listening and waiting for your turn to talk is a huge one. And it's apparent. So apparent. So apparent. And so when you get into that cycle where you've come to your partner and you've brought up something that's important to you, and then they respond with their perspective, you're like, well, I don't even know. You I don't even know if you heard me, you know? Or maybe they respond to a piece of it. Like they they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get all of that. And then I'm gonna just respond to the piece I don't agree with. That I think is also something that people do a lot.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Instead validating the parts that you can get behind. Right. What about is there a way to bring this to a partner's attention? Because I was literally talking about this with a patient this week, and she was saying how her husband would kind of just immediately become defensive and and and shut down, basically. So is there a way to sort of broach this either maybe when you're not in a fight, or is there a way to bring this up with somebody who if the partner feels like their partner is doing this?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Well, I I think probably most people are gonna feel like their partner gets defensive, or they themselves get defensive. Yeah. Defensiveness usually comes from shame. Yeah. It usually comes from feeling like you're not doing something well enough, or you're letting someone that you really care about down. So sometimes it can be helpful to change your approach a little bit. So sometimes saying, you know instead of less less accusatory. Less accusatory to come in softer. So the softening the approach can help a lot. You know, if you do have open communication, it can sometimes also be helpful to say, you know, I I know sometimes when you bring things up to me, I get really defensive. And I often feel like you get defensive as well. And then we start fighting.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Interesting, because then they're recognizing that you also do it, which I'm sure they think that's that can be helpful. Yeah, exactly. And you probably are. I mean, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

There's not a human alive who's like, I never get defensive. Yeah, right. And so maybe asking your partner in like a calmer moment, well, if I do need to bring something up, what would help you to get less defensive? How can I help you to not be defensive? I know, like, because we don't really want to be defensive. No. But it's a little bit of an yeah, we're triggered and then we get defensive. So I think that that can be sometimes, but but also softening the approach. So instead of saying like coming in hot, yeah, I can't believe you didn't take out the trash. It's like, well, what would it be like to take a breath, go slow?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

I know you had a really busy day. I love you so much.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah. I know you had a really busy day. Yeah. This really, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't a big deal. But I wonder if you have a little bit of bandwidth to hear something that, you know, kind of hurt my feelings. So sometimes setting it up a little bit more gently and going in gently can really help your partner to stay out of defensiveness.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, that's this is so interesting because I thought you were going to be like, don't name call. You know, when we were planning this episode. Well, definitely don't name call.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

I mean, name-calling is really abusive behavior. Yeah. I mean, so there's and I don't mean to say that if there's a name-calling in your relationship, it's an abusive relationship. Right. But in a relationship, you know, certainly there are abusive relationships. Those relationships tend to be where one person is all about power and control. Abusive behavior is about power and control.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

And we all want power and control. You know, if you feel like you want, you know, to control the narrative or something, doesn't mean that you're an abusive person or that you're in an abusive relationship. But there are behaviors that are abusive behaviors. And name-calling is one of them. Definitely. Okay. Swearing at somebody. Yeah, totally. You know, I mean, and and I think that it humans do this sometimes. But when you find yourself doing some of those like very unrelational behaviors, name-calling, shaming, you know, anything that would be like sort of is scary, like slamming doors or drinking something, yelling, that kind of stuff, that is all damaging to the relationship. It is, absolutely. And probably requires repair afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And so would you say at that point you need to take a break?

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah, I would say if you get to the point where you have that level of sort of arousal in your system that you just need to take a break.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yep. And so Until I read your book, I was really against that. What you were saying earlier about being in the conversation until it's resolved. I'm just a person that likes to work through it until the solution is presented. And so fellow pursuer. Yeah, yeah, pursuer. Yeah. And then when I read that the that we're pursuers, the partner could be just flooded and overwhelmed and just genuinely needs to pause for their own well-being. I felt a lot more compassionate towards that option. Yeah. And have done that since discovering that in your book. Because I do feel like, oh, okay. They actually don't have the capacity to continue to have a productive conversation. They're completely overwhelmed. They're not not talking because they don't care. They're they've stopped talking because they genuinely can't and they care so deeply.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah. Oh, that's one of the four horsemen stonewalling. Oh, stonewalling. Yeah. But but yes, the that is true that getting our system flooded, but you know, system flooded looks different for different people. So as a pursuer, a fellow pursuer, when I'm flooded, I really struggle to take a break and to walk away. I'm like, we gotta, we gotta iron this out. We have gotta hash this out. We are gonna stay with this. But I'm flooded. I'm not at my best. Because it feels unsafe to stop. It feels like we can't stop until we get out of here. There's an urgency, a crisis, and really we need to sort of hash it out. And so that's actually also a flooded nervous system state, which is not not showing us at our best either. And so interesting. People who have pursuing tendencies tend to be a little bit more on that sort of anxious attachment. Yeah. So they may really, you know, this like really wanting to make sure that the relationship is okay, make sure that they're heard, make sure that they're validated by their partner and there's an urgency there. And people who tend to be withdrawing, more withdrawing in relationships, tend to have a little bit more of an avoidant attachment style. And so they may want to not only do they want to take space, they may never want to have any conflict at all. Yes. Because conflict feels very unsafe.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Totally. I mean, I can tell you, he would just avoid it completely. He would just pretend it never happened and move right along because that's what and to me, it's like that's not a healthy.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Well, it's not, but neither is the crisis either. And so, you know, when you have a relationship, you know, the most common configuration of those sorts of if we're, you know, if we're talking in this framework, which is an emotionally focused therapy framework, the pursuer and the withdrawer. Also, Terry Real talks about this. This is sort of the core of his framework as well. But he calls it the more, the more. So the more I, the more you. But when we're talking about this, it's we actually, in order to come more into the center with each other, because if you have one person who's constantly pursuing, yeah, who's constantly bringing up things, their partner then is going to r withdraw even more in response, which means they then are gonna have to pursue more. And so the withdrawing partner, their job actually, they might need to ask to take a break. So, first of all, asking to take a break would be new probably for a lot of withdrawing partners. They might just shut down. Totally. But to say, I'm feeling really overwhelmed, can we take a break? Yeah, that would probably be a new move. It's a little bit pursue, yeah, to ask for something that you need.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Which Paul has done and it actually completely diffuses the situation. Which is great. It's incredible. It's incredible. Oh yeah. He's like, let's take 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Because that gives you something. Totally. He's coming out, he's saying, I want to talk about this with you, but let's take 20 minutes. And I love that example as well, because a lot of times what the withdrawing partner does is they withdraw, they shut down, and then they're never seen again. Totally. It's like they never bring it up again. Yeah, and like it never happened. It never happened. And that makes their pursuing partner feel so unsafe. Yes. Like they are the one who has to bring it up. So, but the pursuing partner needs to be willing to accept the break, willing to say to themselves, okay, I need a break.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yeah. Well, I think the only reason that I'm willing to do that now is because I understand these frameworks more than I ever did before. You know, now that I understand that there is a pursuer and a withdrawer, which is obviously oversimplifying it, it just makes so much more sense to me. It does, yeah. And I feel like I just needed that information to know that, oh, there actually is a framework in which you can fight in a healthier way that doesn't damage the relationship at its core. Right. You know, and obviously, of course, we wish we could never fight, but that's just not realistic. No, it's not realistic. We have to be able to be respectful in our conflict. Yeah, which thankfully neither of us were ever really big name callers. Although sometimes I would say, you're you're acting like a jerk, you know. In my mind, that means I know you're not a jerk, but he doesn't differentiate between the two.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

But I that is different. You know, acting like a jerk, you're talking about behavior in versus you are. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

A. You know?

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah. But it's semantics.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah. Yeah. Which is the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

So that the pursuer and the withdrawer, they get stuck in what's called the cycle. So it's that co-create. This is why the content doesn't matter so much. Because we get stuck together in the same way where we both have sort of desperate needs to be heard or to be understood. And the cycle is co-created. So the the more I pursue, the more you withdraw. And we push each other further and further away. So it's not, you know, it's if if you didn't have a withdrawing partner, if you went to somebody and you said, Hey, you know, you didn't take the trash out, and it sort of made me feel, you know, a little unsupported. And your partner was able to say, Oh, babe, I'm so sorry. You know, I'm so sorry you felt that way. That must have been terrible. That must have been a really bad way to start your day. I'm so sorry that I contributed to that.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, feels lovely. Lovely. I think that's easier to do when you already have a lot of the good feelings there already, right? It's like when your cup is already full with the love, then it's so much easier. And people talk about this a lot in the context of intimacy is how can you expect me to have these warm, fuzzy feelings for you after all day you XYZ, and then you just expect me to have sex? Like what? Yeah, you know, which is challenging.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

It's tricky. It is tricky. And I would also say that probably, again, different perspectives. Different perspectives. Different perspectives, clearly. That if your sex life is generally pleasurable and you did have sex at the end of a long day and you're feeling super disconnected, you probably would feel more connected afterwards. So it's not like that's the wrong perspective, but when we get into this battle of, no, I need this, no, I need this, and then it feels like impossible for anybody to get their needs met.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, and I could see somebody that isn't as comfortable with the verbal skills, they would try and use something physical, if that's what they're more comfortable with to repair.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, and those are sort of different styles of wanting to connect, which way wanting to connect first. And certainly sex is something that people fight about all the time. I mean it's an area of content that people often fight about.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Well, and it's so fraught, you know, because they're your feelings. It's a very vulnerable act. So your feelings are really sensitive, I think, around that topic anyway.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, and we don't know how to talk about it, which is another one of our episodes. So we won't get too into that now. But we, in addition to not always knowing how to handle conflict, because you know, in a relationship, the cycle of rupture and repair is inevitable. Yeah. But well, rupture is inevitable. And then how do you repair? Yeah. So rupture is gonna be inevitable because you're two people or more people and you have different perspectives. And so you're going to rupture. You're gonna rupture with your children, you're gonna rupture with your partner. And it feels so much easier to repair with my kids than it does with my spouse for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Well, we're used to we say, yeah, okay, it's our responsibility to repair this relationship or whatever. And I think that with kids now, the way that we parent, most people are comfortable with the cycle of rupture and repair. They just know that that's healthy for the kids. That that's healthy for the kids. But you know that's new information. That's newer. I think in our when we were growing up, and certainly with With older generations, the parents didn't repair. No. It would it would have been giving away power to repair. And I think that we often feel that way in our intimate partnerships is that if we repair, we give away power. But it's it's not. I mean, we really need to. The repair is what brings us closer. Yeah. Repair is what gets us intimacy. The repair is what gets us connection. And so we need to be able to swallow our pride and be willing to repair. But in order to truly repair, you know, I could say, Well, I'm sorry I didn't take out the trash. I guess that was super big deal. It's like, okay, that's not repair. Not at all. Not at all. So tone matters, intention matters, being able to see perspective. So if I'm gonna say, if I'm gonna repair for taking out the trash, I need to be able to see my person's perspective. Yeah. In addition to my own. It was a crazy morning. And like, I should be able to just not take out the trash and not have that be a big deal. Like fair. That is a fair perspective. But when your partner comes to you with something that hurt them, instead of thinking about what you did or didn't do to hurt them, whether it's fair or not for them to be hurt by that, whether you deserve the criticism of having hurt them, if you focus on how they felt, then it's even much easier.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Much easier. Much easier to feel bad because you love them so much. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And you just yeah, you would never want them to feel that way. You never want them to feel that way. So it almost hurts worse because you're the one who caused it.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah. And so in order to really repair, we also have to be able to tolerate. That's the thing about defensiveness and shame. Yes. Is so when you when your partner comes to you and they say, I felt hurt when you did this, it's much easier to go into like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

It's just taking out the trash. And I do all kinds of other things. Obviously. It's not about the trash per se.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

No, it's not about the trash per se. And so it's so obvious to us. Right. But in order to really fully repair, you have to be able to feel and tolerate the fact that you hurt your partner and that you can't take away that hurt. It's already done. The only thing you can do is to repair, genuinely repair by perspective taking. And I would say the other thing that people often get wrong, which you know, we've talked around, but in these conversations, we want to get heard at the same time in order to repair.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yes. Okay. Paul and I have discussed this. We've said, listen, I really it's my this is my turn. And then I am gonna give you a turn as well. Yep. And so we've actually framed it that way. Like, you're gonna have a turn and I'm gonna have a turn. We're both actually gonna give each other a quiet turn. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

And sometimes it can even be helpful to set a timer. Like literally be like, okay, for this five minutes, I am like your defense attorney. I am trying to truly understand perspective. As opposed to a prosecutor, you know? Totally. But it also a lot of times it's hard to do it's too heated within one interaction. Yeah, yeah. You know, sometimes you really just have to kind of bite your tongue and really show up for your partner's perspective and just truly validate that and then be able to hold your perspective. And maybe you have an agreement together. Okay, I know you have a perspective that didn't get heard. Let's take a break, reset, and then we'll come back and it's your turn. So I love that. You guys are already doing, I mean, that's already so much of the battle is being able to take a break, being able to acknowledge what you're doing, sort of having a little bit of a structure around the argument so that it doesn't just it's less likely to devolve. Yeah, because it's so easy for that to just fly off the handle. Oh my gosh, yes. And then recognizing if it's fly if it if it does devolve, recognizing, okay, we're both equally stuck here. I can't help you, you can't help me. We're really stuck. Let's take 20 minutes or 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah, or even longer. But just to say that there's a it's it, at least from my perspective, it's helpful to have some sort of time frame because just the stopping with no plan to resume is obviously like you said, too vulnerable and scary.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah, exactly. And that's what makes a pursuer feel unsafe. Yeah, exactly. So being able to say we'll come back in 20 or 30 minutes. I would say anything less than 20 minutes, you're just gonna go probably right back into the cycle.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Totally. Oh, good to know. Interesting. Yeah. You need that long for your nervous system to we've I mean, we have even the the whole like don't go to bed angry. We have con decided that we're gonna talk about it the next day or made a time. Yeah. But for me, it's fine. As long as we have a time that we've designated, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah. Yeah. And I know that don't go to bed angry, but like also don't stay up till 3 a.m. fighting completely.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

That's worse. And we have kids. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yeah. We we have responsibilities. We have to just be able to.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Right. I would say that typically if you're gonna leave something for the next day, it can be helpful to have like, I love you. We're gonna talk through this tomorrow. Like a little bit of a repair, man. We're really both stuck here. I know we're both hurt, we love each other, we're gonna pick this back up. Like being intentional about it can really help to calm it down in order to have like a productive conversation on the second.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Fantastic. Wow. Thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Thanks for listening to Under the Hood. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please like, share, and subscribe.