Episode 26: Oldest Daughter Energy - “Leadership Potential” and Letting Go

In this episode, Dr. Rebecca and Dr. Alex dive into the “Oldest Daughter” archetype. Drawing on personal reflections, therapy insights, and Brené Brown’s work, they explore the fine line between being helpful and chronically over-functioning. From running point on family vacations to navigating communication clashes with their Southern husbands (we’re not rude - we’re direct!), this honest and funny conversation looks at why so many oldest daughters are the way they are, what it costs them, and how they’re learning to step back (a bit) and let go (a little).

Key takeaways:

• How oldest daughters are shaped into “hyper-responsible” leaders early in life
• The over-functioning / under-functioning dynamic that shows up in families, workplaces, and relationships
• How being “the one who handles everything” can ultimately lead to exhaustion, resentment, and disconnection from others
• A funny look at "Northern Directness" versus "Southern Politeness" and the struggle to balance efficiency with gentler communication 

Tune in if:

• You think you’re an amazing delegator… and you’re confused why not everyone seems to appreciate this talent  🙃
• You’re curious how birth order follows us into adulthood and professional life.
• You want to hear two business owners + moms laugh about their shared need to be—and stay—in charge.

Helpful resources

• The Power of Vulnerability TED Talk - Brene Brown 
• Project 333 - The Minimalist Fashion Challenge to simplify your life and clear out your closet (as mentioned in Under the Hood Episode 23 with Ali Schmidt) 
• Bowen/Family Systems Theory: The psychological framework that sees the family as an emotional system where everyone’s behavior affects everyone else, often in repeating generational patterns. 
• Find a pelvic floor PT near you: pelvicrehab.com or Pelvic Global Directory
• Parents in Love: A Guide to Great Sex After Kids by Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy 

Connect with us:

Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy
Website: rebeccaeudy.com
Instagram: @rebeccahowardeudy
Newsletter: Parents in Love Substack

Dr. Alexandra DiGrado
Website: bostonpelvicpt.com
Instagram: @bostonpelvicpt
Newsletter: Under the Hood

Under the Hood Podcast
Instagram: @underthehooddocs
Website: underthehoodpod.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Under the Hood with Dr. Alex and Dr. Rebecca. Where we share pearls of wisdom from our 30 years of combined clinical experience.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Good morning. Good morning. Hi. Hi. So I feel like we've already covered a lot this morning, as we always do.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We just should hit record the minute we arrive.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

I know, that's right. But then people would get all kinds of nonsense. Yeah, true. Yeah. But we've sort of already started talking about this, so we we were just gonna hit record. So this morning we are talking about oldest siblings, which we both are. Yeah. Oldest daughters.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yeah. Shall I tell you what I've learned? Yeah. Okay. Tell me what you've learned. So I knew my own personal experience, but I wanted to understand in the context of maybe more so therapy, which obviously I'm not a mental health therapist. And so I discussed it with my therapist and she helped me research. You spent your therapy researching. Which is much more comfortable, you know, thanks for watching. Yeah, as a therapist, I'm like Alex. Whatever you avoiding other things. Yeah, avoiding other things. And so the reason why we wanted to talk about this is because we really understand each other. And also we have a lot of similarities. And we're both business owners and we're both great leaders in our field. You have written a book. I'm in the process of writing a book. We have this podcast. And so one of the classic oldest identifiers is that leadership ability, being a trailblazer, but also being a little bit of a perfectionist, anxious rule follower. And part of it is that you are sort of expected to keep an eye on the younger siblings. And sometimes it's more than keep an eye, sometimes it's actually true caregiving. I think my mom was pretty intentional about that. In my house, we always had a babysitter, even when I was old enough to watch my siblings. And I'm thinking that she did that on purpose for me. I was the camp counselor at their summer camp, which was for children with diabetes. So definitely I still had some of that. But I do feel that she was aware of those things because she had her master's degree in early childhood development. So she knew to kind of protect me in some ways from that. But certainly the anxious, bossy leadership. I like to call that leadership potential. Yes. So much leadership potential. And so also just really high expectations. So we've talked a lot about parents kind of either get a little less anxious themselves or more tired, depending on how you want to look at it. Both, maybe. Yeah, both, or they just kind of figure everything is going to be fine. And so for me, I couldn't go past the big tree, which was two houses up. My younger siblings were gallivanting throughout the whole neighborhood, God only knows. Yeah. I remember this cute guy next door invited me out into the street to play kickball. And I was old enough, definitely. No. The answer was no. I sat at the window watching, you know, not allowed to play in the street. Oh, did he find another cute girl to play with? I'm sure. Yes, pressed against the window. Definitely. I mean, that's that's a core memory. Yeah. What about you? What was your experience as the oldest?

SPEAKER_02 3:22

I think similar. You know, I would say I love so Brene Brown, who I love, talks about this. She's the oldest as well. So she Okay, so she gets it. She gets it. And one of the things I was listening to her book, I think it's called The Power of Vulnerability. And it's a series of her teachings. She's so brilliant, too.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

And she's funny. So one of the things that she says, but which really like struck home for me is that as the oldest, you are given an outsized view of your own importance. Interesting. The example that she gives, which is so funny. Yeah. She's like, Brene, make sure you close that drawer or your siblings might die. It's so funny, right? But seriously though, it's like you make sure that this is done. Like definitely.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Very vigilant, hyper-vigilant.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Very vigilant and hyper-vigilant. And so as that goes, you know, that that oversized sense of responsibility, not only responsibility for yourself, but responsibility for everybody. Definitely. It puts m my experience has been, and I think that the oldest child research is that it puts oldest children and particularly oldest daughters into a situation where they're overfunctioners. Oh yeah, clearly. And in a system for me. Yeah, me too. Yeah, in a in a system, whether it's a family or it's an organization or it's a job or whatever, people tend to respond to stress and anxiety in a system with two ways. One is to overfunction and one is to underfunction. And neither are particularly helpful nor relational. So, like to overfunction, then you have someone else who's underfunctioning. And this I find in my family. I've actually talked to my one of my younger sisters about this. And, you know, we have a group family house that we go to for vacations and stuff. And we're there and I'm like doing everybody's laundry and I'm grocery shopping and I'm meal planning. I'm doing all the things all the time. And I'm not sitting down and I'm not enjoying myself. And people are starting to avoid me, honestly, because they're like, okay, first of all, she's got it covered. I go into the kitchen and I say, Hey, do you need some help? No, I've got it.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Everything's moving.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Everything's great.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

So there's that. And then also, like, overfunctioning does not make me happy. I'm like more grumpy when I'm overfunctional. You know, like of course people want to avoid me. But interesting, so interestingly, this was a couple of years ago. Sh my younger sister said, Well, I feel like I don't know what to do. And so then I'm, you know, sitting at the beach and feeling like I should be doing something, but I don't know what to do. I don't know how to fit in. And that that underfunctioning is really uncomfortable as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah. Wow. Isn't that interesting? Because I'm viewing the youngers as just so carefree because they're not looking out for anyone else. They're just looking out for themselves and kind of out in the world, not worrying about anybody else. And that's sort of the trope, I guess, is sort of carefreness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

And I think that they can be. That's true. They may not, they may struggle with something different. But I I have found myself as the oldest. I have never struggled to feel important or useful. Oh, definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

No, because I know I am so important. So indispensable. Okay, yeah, indispensable. Yes. Okay. This is all making sense. I feel like I'm not even my own person. I'm just this product of my environment. Yeah, not so unique. It's really interesting to see it on paper because then you're like, wow, okay. So do I have tremendous willpower or am I just the eldest children?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Eldest daughter. Yeah. It is funny that it does tend to be the eldest daughter. Not to say that, you know, the eldest son has different, you know, they're not societal expectations are different, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Especially if there's younger siblings.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

The caretaking. I think in my family, my mom said to me once, both of my parents are oldest children too. So I think that that may have like framed their expectations of me as well. But she was like, you know, when you have we there's both of us in our families, there's four siblings who are the oldest of four. And so my mom recently said, you know, we just we just sort of figured like the older ones raise the younger ones. You know? I think my mom tried not to be fair. Fair. And I think that my mom during this conversation was kind of like questioning that a little bit. But it just was kind of the way I think that their expectation was. It, you know, I think that they probably were somewhat overwhelmed. I cannot imagine. I have two kids and I'm overwhelmed. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

So it is, you know, they did need my help. And people always say, Oh, Alex, are you having more kids? I'm like, two is so much work. Two is so much work. I can't even imagine it. And then meanwhile, I came from four. And I also think part of it was the idea of having this crew. And we were, we were all 18 months apart. So we were a crew. And and so it's kind of just built-in friends, essentially, because we always just got to be a gaggle and plenty of people to play with and boss around.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Boss around. Yes, right. That's amazing that you were all 18 months apart. I can't even imagine. My two are 18 months apart, and it's crazy. It was. I mean, now they're great friends, and they are like a crew. Yeah, I could imagine if you kept going that that I I could imagine that continuing, but man, oh man, those early years were really I'd be so curious to hear my own siblings' perspectives as in in different.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I do think because my next sibling is a social worker, she's very intentional about advocating and and and doing a lot of the kind of maybe classically older sibling activities. Yeah. And sort of taking stuff off my plate, but not necessarily viewing it as my plate. Just trying to work as a team. And so was that how it was when you guys were growing up? We do delegate really well. Oh gosh, my sister is like Mother Teresa. I think she's just always been this way. Although maybe that is a little bit of the second child. I don't know. We'll have to research every all of them. All of them. Um, but she's just incredibly helpful in every way, always.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Did it feel like when you were growing up you were like a team? Like you were she was helpful with the city.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, I think we fought definitely. Not she and I, but the four of us would fight like normal kids do. But probably because of autoimmune disease, um, you know, my siblings had type 1 diabetes, which is very serious and involves a lot of at the time finger pricks, injections, you know, medical appointments. And so maybe we did have that cohesiveness more so than a family that didn't have that. Because we all would go to the diabetes camp together, even though not all of us had the disease. And now all four of us do. So we were really well adept to handle it once we got it, because we'd already been going and learning and you know, doing all of the education just as a sibling.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah. I can see why your mom would have wanted a babysitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely with all four of them being 18 months apart and the diabetes of course. It's like really not Alex, this is not Alex's responsibility. This is not Alex's responsibility. Yeah. In my family, so my brother and I are two years apart. Okay. And then there's five years between my brother and our next sister.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

So I'm seven years younger than her, and then ten years younger than the youngest.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Okay. Okay, so yeah, that's a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

It was always the big kids and the little kids. The big kids and the little kids, yeah. And my brother, I mean, I love my brother, but he was not that helpful. Yeah. Not that helpful. No. And I don't think that that's I mean, I think maybe it's just his personality. He's a little bit more of an introvert or the expectation. But I I think that by the time the little kids came along, it would be like my mom would sort of hand me a list of things that needed to get done, and then I would be bossing everybody around.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah. And I am an amazing delegator. I think of myself as a delegator, but then Paul sometimes uses other language to describe it. When we when I throw parties at my house, I know everything that needs to be done, and I have no problem assigning those tasks to others. And then I'm confused when it's not super well received all the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

That is so relatable. It's so relatable. Oh my God. And I have to tell you, as I've grown in awareness of my own self. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think I have some awareness to keep growing. I have realized that my first when there is a job to do, my first thought is, who can I give this to?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Like, no, I'm I'm just chronically delegating. Me too. But isn't that? And Lee is like, well, you just do it yourself. Yeah, totally. I think that's how Paul feels too. We'll have to ask. And so our Southern husbands. This is a different episode. This is a different episode. We both have Southern husbands with their northern.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

They're so rude. We're so rude.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, Paul does repeatedly think I'm rude, and I I'm direct. Me too. We are direct. Yeah, we are direct. And when you come from New England, especially Massachusetts, I do think there is a directness here. Yes. And so, but in the South, my goodness. Mm-mm. Bless their hearts. Yeah, bless their hearts. They are just so very polite. Yeah, very polite. So polite. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So my now we're getting into the maybe we just need to smush these two together, get to know Alice and Rebecca. So my mother-in-law, who is just the most lovely person. She really is. She sounds so great. So she just moved next door to us from North Carolina, which is so brave. It's very 80s. It's like so brave. And we really encouraged her to make this move. But, you know, walking around her neighborhood with her in North Carolina, you know, she would say, you know, the the neighbor her neighbors are in the yard and she's like, you, hi, hi. And you know, they might not see her the first time, but that is not going to stop her from saying it again. You know? Oh, hi. Hi. Totally. You know? And it's so, and then they see her, oh hi, how are you doing? You know, and it's like this nice little thing. So southern. So southern. And so I would say, uh, you know, I'm a pretty friendly, open person. Like my neighbors now, I think probably I like am a big baker, so I'm constantly giving baked goods and stuff. They like probably want to close their doors when they see me coming. They're like, enough bread already. No, but but really that you can't. So I love to do stuff like that. I am like community-minded. But if I walk by my neighbor, even my next door neighbor who I see all the time, and they look absorbed in a task in their yard, I am not gonna say, if we catch eyes, sure, I will say something. But the way I see that is it's I don't think it's rude as much as like a little bit of privacy. Yeah, it feels intrusive to be like, but you know, that's not how Southern.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Regularly, people do not say hi back when I say hi. Yes. Because I lived in New Orleans for five years and then moved back. And so that's still in me a little bit. And so, especially for the first two years that we lived back here, I would say hi. I mean, we're walking within two feet of each other.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

It feels rude to not say hi from that southern perspective.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

I know.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

And people literally hear me and do not reply. Yeah. Or they might smile. I do that sometimes. Like a little half. Yeah, me too. It's like if someone says hi to me and I'm like, I don't really want to say, or they seem like a little weird or something. Totally. I'll just do it seem weird.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

I also wonder. Oh, well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

I'd say hi to you.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, I oftentimes wonder like I must be threatening in some way because you did not say hi back.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, in your friendliness. It's too friendly.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

It is what do you want from me? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Like I don't know. Total distrust. What do you want from me? Yeah, exactly. But then once you get so it's easy to see how they think it's rude. And then I think even just like a little bit in the inner circle too, where you know, I am delegating, I might. I mean, I sometimes Lee will call me out and say, like, please, or you know, remind me of my manners.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Is that true, Rebecca? Because Paul calls me out. Now I'm trained, like Pavlov's dogs. Now I say please every time. But it took probably seven years of him every single time being like, please.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah, it's absolutely true that and I'm not there yet. But here's one I always say thank you. I always say thank you too.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Well, I don't always say thank you. Not according to Lee. Oh, okay. I always say thank you, but I just please somehow feels so formal to me.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

So it feels formal to me too, and it also feels directive. Like if I say, could you please do that? Then it feels like trouble. Yeah, or something. Yeah. Could you do that? Would you mind? I think I say would you mind more than I say could you please? Which feels polite to me, but according to my southern husband, it isn't.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

No, definitely same with same with me. While we're living very similar experiences. Doesn't it just make you question everything? When I was doing the research for this episode, eldest, I was like, okay, wow. I'm reading my own diary.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Well, I think culture is really we are steeped in culture. Yeah. And the culture of the family is specific to the family, but then it's also the the birth order, you know, it does.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

It does have it does matter. It does matter, and there's a lot of impact, which now it makes me think about my expectations of my own eldest daughter, you know, because we are pretty strict. And I was thinking about sitting at the kitchen table doing my homework and just how regimented and strict, and and I wonder how that changed over the years. Yeah. And I'm sort of repeating it with Tess.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. I wonder about that too. My kids are so close in age, I think that often, you know, my eldest, I don't know if it's because of his personality or because he's the eldest, but he is very, he has a lot of leadership potential. And I will often say, Lee, so Lee, this is funny. So Lee's cousin has two sons, and uh somehow told him that when the eldest is like kind of getting a little big for his purches and bossing his brother around, he'll say, All right, Daddy Jr. And then it's sort of like a little bit of like a oh, okay, I was doing that, you know, behavior. And so Lee tried this with Gray, our eldest, and he was like, Okay, Daddy Jr. And Lee Gray was like, Ah, yes. And so then he started calling himself Daddy Jr. It was like an empowerment. So we've had to read we've had to reel that language back. He was like, Finally, somebody's somebody's recognizing that I am. That is so great. But they're only 18 months apart, so it feels like I mean, I'm often saying, like, you you are you're too young to have children.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, too.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, you do not need to parent.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

I do say that a lot to Teresa. This is not your responsibility. Mom and dad are in charge of Mark, you know, that that is something that we repeat quite.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

But it's so hardwire.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And also it's a necessity sometimes. Like if they're playing outside and I'm trying to make dinner, I want them to have independence to play outside, but he is a lot younger and someone does kind of need to keep an eye. So I think then I have a lot of compassion for the situation where a parent does sort of need the older ones to watch out for the younger.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Oh, definitely. And I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, I think but I do think that the oldest children tend to be more neurotic. Yeah, I'm definitely right there. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

I think it's decreased over time, but I'm still unlike peeling back the layers of the I think my siblings really help me with that actually, because they are really good about pitching in. And so then they host, you know, they'll they'll host, they'll help plan, they'll come up with ideas for gifts, especially since I've had kids and I have a business. I think because they they're in in tune, yeah, you know, they recognize that I can't do those things. And they also want to do them. Right. You know, they want to be part of that.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

My sister hosted Thanksgiving this past year, my youngest sister, and I don't think I've ever it's like I was so relaxed. Yeah. When my parents host, I find myself getting a little bit more into the oldest. Yeah, just helping and doing it. Oh there, yeah, exactly. But w for some reason, I think, you know, there I was like this is I would go into the kitchen and be like, is there anything I can do? Whatever. No, it's it's all under control. It's fine. And so I like went and sat down and like talked to people.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

It was so nice. I was like, oh my god, this this is. It's nice that it felt nice for you instead of like, Am I useless? Yeah. No, it really didn't.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

It felt really nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah, yeah, it felt really nice. We just did the project three, is it three three three? The Allie um episode recommended. And so what the project is for those who didn't listen to that episode is that you reduce your closet to 33 items per season. And so, of course. I didn't get to 33. Yeah, that's okay. I think I'm at like 40. Yeah, I think that's really great. Yeah. And it's just meant to simplify your morning so that you can just pick a top and a bottom and they are likely to go together, and then you just get out the door, and it's really worked wonders for me. But the reason I'm bringing it up is because it's such a pleasure for me to then give all my nice stuff to my siblings. Oh, yeah. So my my siblings came over and then I disseminated all my clothes. It makes it so much easier for me. To give it away. To give it away. Then I love that they have it. And and so there is something about that. You always keep that sort of desire to care for your siblings. When I had the opportunity to live with my siblings after college, and I would love to buy groceries for them, and I would love to cook for them because it just felt so familiar, yeah, like caring for them. And so, but sometimes you almost forget that they're also adults that that probably also want to feel useful too.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm always my youngest sister, she said her husband will say, like, you he's like, You you your style is your sister's closet.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Your style is whatever you're doing. Yes, it's giving you. Yeah, totally. Which is, I think, yeah. I mean, I personally love to see it. Yeah, I'd love to see it. And when when I see something that I handed down, I'd love it. Yeah.

unknown 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Same with kids' clothes too. When you see it, when my niece at Easter wore a dress that Tess had worn. It was so sentimental. Yeah. That's so sweet. We didn't have any of that.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

My siblings' children are a little bit too I think the gap is a little bit. Too much and then also. Oh my gosh, my kids are so hard on the street. Oh, definitely. It's like nothing. No, this was just a PMC dress. Just a fancy. Yeah, kids, I think, survive, but other than that, okay, now we're getting off topic. Okay. Bye. Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Thanks for listening to Under the Hood. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please like, share, and subscribe.